Feargus Urquhart interview on Gamasutra

[ManWithNoName]

Well I didn't say you weren't assholes. And why no asshole achivement? On second thought nevermind.

 

[tekhedd]

I say it sounds like theres a bunch of Hardcore KotOr fans here because they hated the KotOr 2 (which obsidion made) and they hate that instead of doing what they liked they're making a KotOR MMO.

Oh, the MMO! MMOs based on turn-based games make me laugh. I'm finally playing KOTOR 2 for the first time and it's definitely not the complete waste of disk space that some fans paint it to be. But an MMO? I don't get it. Anyway, MMOs are so "five years ago." (Kidding, I like MMOs--if I had more free time I'd play.)

I promise not to comment on the communitys hatred again. I feel like you guys are slowly changing me though, like cancer. Not that you guys are cancer or anything.

Stolen for my quotes collection. Every time I read this, I laugh again!

There have been TRPGs for consoles since at least the NES and continue to be so no, lack of a mouse is not a valid reason. Granted, it works better with TB games than RT games but the fact remains that it works fine.

Agree; with a little effort, they could have made a turnbased game that works on a console. My point is that the FPS format was clearly a good choice for the market and platform, from a business point of view. I didn't really like the end result, but it *could* have worked. The FPS format, VATS, all of the ideas seem great...in concept. In execution...

 

[Kerr-Plomb]

I thought most people on this site were just assholes

Well, we are!

Thing is we usually had these debates a hundred times before these new people join to make exactly the same points in the absolute conviction that they're being really clever. Pointing out Strife and Ultima Underworld over and over does get tiring.

Alright, you've proven me wrong.

 

[SharkClub]

An isometric Fallout simply would not sell good, it is simply a fact.

@Reconite: If you don't like discussions or personal opinions, you can go to any of those many countries were dictatorship says what is right and what is wrong. And if I say fact, it's still opinion, just wanted to say with it that I'm pretty pretty sure on this one, of course it can be totally different as well.

First you say "fact", then you pass it off as your personal opinion. You can't say "fact" is your opinion. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Brother None]

There's no indication that joining the forums and talking about things you like in FO3 will result in a torrent of nerd rage that would put the most dedicated Jar Jar Binks hater to shame.

Yeah, that's not really what we're talking about here. Talking about things you like in Fallout 3 is not the same thing as joining this forum to troll us with the same tired arguments about how turn-based is dead or how the franchise had to change. One is fine, the other is not, trying to lay the blame at that at our doorstep is just petulant.

Because last time I checked, "talking about things you like in FO3" doesn't necessitate the kind of posts made in this thread.

 

[choconutjoe]

There's no indication that joining the forums and talking about things you like in FO3 will result in a torrent of nerd rage that would put the most dedicated Jar Jar Binks hater to shame.

Yeah, that's not really what we're talking about here. Talking about things you like in Fallout 3 is not the same thing as joining this forum to troll us with the same tired arguments about how turn-based is dead or how the franchise had to change. One is fine, the other is not, trying to lay the blame at that at our doorstep is just petulant.

Because last time I checked, "talking about things you like in FO3" doesn't necessitate the kind of posts made in this thread.

I was thinking more generally (my own experiences and other threads I've read). Perhaps I was a bit off topic in regards to this thread.

I feel my point stands though. Maybe lots of people aren't actually trying to troll you, they just don't know what they're getting into when they join a conversation on this forum. The tiniest seed of contention has a way of spiraling out of control on the internet. Making the bias of the site more clear might help stop lots of angry arguments before they start.

 

[Brother None]

The tiniest seed of contention has a way of spiraling out of control on the internet. Making the bias of the site more clear might help stop lots of angry arguments before they start.

Last time I checked, it's good manners to read a forum and find out what it's about before registering to post. We're not really here to teach people internet decorum, they should figure that out for themselves.

 

[Kerr-Plomb]

An isometric Fallout simply would not sell good, it is simply a fact.

@Reconite: If you don't like discussions or personal opinions, you can go to any of those many countries were dictatorship says what is right and what is wrong. And if I say fact, it's still opinion, just wanted to say with it that I'm pretty pretty sure on this one, of course it can be totally different as well.

First you say "fact", then you pass it off as your personal opinion. You can't say "fact" is your opinion. It just doesn't make sense.

Everything you say is opinion and point of view, not a single person can say a full truth or fact per se, it is still all a matter of point of view.

 

[choconutjoe]

The tiniest seed of contention has a way of spiraling out of control on the internet. Making the bias of the site more clear might help stop lots of angry arguments before they start.

Last time I checked, it's good manners to read a forum and find out what it's about before registering to post. We're not really here to teach people internet decorum, they should figure that out for themselves.

Ok, so it's other people's fault and not yours. Either way you still end up with every thread in the news section degenerating into an angry slagging match. All I'm suggesting is that, if you are genuinely sick of it, you could probably avoid alot of it just by being more up front regarding what the forum is about.

Hell, even a sticky at the top of the forum might do the trick: "Many of our regulars passionately dislike FO3 and are tired of people arguing with them on the subject, so please refrain from doing so. Use the search function if you want to find out more" etc.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion.

 

[alec]

It's not so much about us being tired of discussing these subjects, I think, it's rather about us being tired of having to point out the obvious over and over again. Turnbased, isometric, SPECIAL, New Reno, the Enclave... all of those things have been discussed to death and these discussions are in fact well documented - if one would use the Search function one would know. New insights would be welcomed, but we see none. None.

It always helps to read up on a subject or ask yourself whether you are knowledgeable enough about a certain subject before jumping into a discussion.

I sometimes wonder what newcomers hope to find on a site that was built around the old games and of which the core still consists of people who held the Fallout heritage alive for a decade without anything really interesting popping up. That's dedication and it deserves some respect.

Often, when I wander around in these "TB is dead" and "isometric is old" discussions I feel like a 21st century Darwinist who is being interrogated by creationists on the validity of evolution. And all I can think of then is: "Didn't we already go through this during the 19th and the 20th century? Wasn't the debate over at some point? What the fuck is wrong with these people?"

 

[Crni Vuk]

I think such a warning would just make things even worse atracting more of those that think they have to go on some crusade or holy mission saving the NMA land its heretics and give people further the false impression NMA would be some kind of unity ~ where is the master ?.

Point is which BN and many others want to make is that you simply cant give any general statement about the oppinion of this community as this community has no oppinion. There might be the NMA review, eventualy. And even that is just a ... review. Not any oppinion or fact by the community. Coming over here with such a warning would be just as wrong like warning people that when they move to the Bethesda board they will mostly face only people with much love for Oblivion which is not true there might be many Oblivion fans on that board but thats just normal. Every community with enough members has a wide range of oppinions and likings. NMA is no exception.

To make one thing clear though, is there a biger potential to start a fight over Fallout3, and F1 here then compared to letz say the United Methodist Church forum/blog ? Sure. But how could that come of to anyone as surprise ? So in other words when you enther the front page read NMA and Fallout 1, you have already your "warning".

I sometimes wonder what newcomers hope to find on a site that was built around the old games and of which the core still consists of people who held the Fallout heritage alive for a decade without anything really interesting popping up. That's dedication and it deserves some respect.

You damn know those people that love old time cars from the past are damn FUCKING WRONG! How can they love something that is so outdated and old and not even usefull in any way. How could anyone of them love it more then a Ferrarie testarossa !
*just joking. I mean you know it anyway?*

 

[choconutjoe]

I think such a warning would just make things even worse atracting more of those that think they have to go on some crusade or holy mission saving the NMA land its heretics and give people further the false impression NMA would be some kind of unity ~ where is the master ?.

Point is which BN and many others want to make is that you simply cant give any general statement about the oppinion of this community as this community has no oppinion. There might be the NMA review, eventualy. And even that is just a ... review. Not any oppinion or fact by the community. Coming over here with such a warning would be just as wrong like warning people that when they move to the Bethesda board they will mostly face only people with much love for Oblivion which is not true there might be many Oblivion fans on that board but thats just normal. Every community with enough members has a wide range of oppinions and likings. NMA is no exception.

To make one thing clear though, is there a biger potential to start a fight over Fallout3, and F1 here then compared to letz say the United Methodist Church forum/blog ? Sure. But how could that come of to anyone as surprise ? So in other words when you enther the front page read NMA and Fallout 1, you have already your "warning".

The community may not have one giant monolithic opinion regarding FO3, but there is no denying that this is the forum where people who passionately dislike FO3 hang out (the fact that you feel that people come here on 'holy missions' against you would support that).

But it's really not at all obvious from the site that that's the case. It just looks like a site for Fallout fans, and for many people (who don't dislike FO3): Fallout is just Fallout, in all it's variants. The anti-FO3 stance is honestly quite difficult to understand for some people who like FO1, 2 & 3. Some of the opinions on this forum can take you by surprise, as well as the animosity with which they are (occasionally) delivered.

It's very easy to join the forum, thinking your joining a group of people who share similar interests to you, only to get caught up in a heated argument you really weren't expecting. It might seem like many of these people are trolls on a crusade, but I'm sure some of them aren't trying to be. Maybe if they knew what they were getting into before hand, they'd think twice before posting.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

So...FO2 was made in just 8 months? Wow, I'm impressed.

Everything you say is opinion and point of view, not a single person can say a full truth or fact per se, it is still all a matter of point of view.

I'm alive.

 

[Brother None]

So...FO2 was made in just 8 months? Wow, I'm impressed.

It's the base model of Urquhart's "slam dunk" concept.

 

[PaladinHeart]

I kinda lost track of what this thread's about a few pages ago, but skimming through the posts on this last page made me want to make a couple of comments.

First, I seen someone comment on turn based MMOs. There's one called Dofus. It reminds me more of Final Fantasy Tactics than it does Fallout though.

And..

Last time I checked, it's good manners to read a forum and find out what it's about before registering to post. We're not really here to teach people internet decorum, they should figure that out for themselves.

Or at least read the topic at hand. Generally, I find that "don't insult people or their opinions" tends to work just about anywhere on the internet. That's just common sense though. Same with "don't say anything stupid, and if you do, then at least express it as your opinion rather than a fact". A lot of people don't understand these concepts though. It'd probably be helpful to let them know about it, but then the mods wouldn't have nearly as much fun handing out strikes and banning people.

Err.. not that you have fun doing that sorta thing. That was just my opinion. :ninja:

 

[Chinz]

So...FO2 was made in just 8 months? Wow, I'm impressed.

Everything you say is opinion and point of view, not a single person can say a full truth or fact per se, it is still all a matter of point of view.

I'm alive.

Prove it to me. How do I know you aren't just AI?

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Concerning the market thing. I'm not saying I think it's good that there are no isometric games out there. Yes, Diablo, but Diablo is not strong because of the perspective, it's a name which is worth tons of gold, just as warcraft and starcraft are, look at starcraft 2. No innovation, old graphics and gameplay, millions sold.

Diablo's name is worth a lot of money because Diablo and Diablo 2 were both excellent games. StarCraft 2 appears pretty good to me and it certainly has some improvements and has differences (many of the units) from StarCraft. Sure, it's name and Blizzards are the reason that it sold so fast but that doesn't mean that it's a bad game.

Agree; with a little effort, they could have made a turnbased game that works on a console. My point is that the FPS format was clearly a good choice for the market and platform, from a business point of view. I didn't really like the end result, but it *could* have worked. The FPS format, VATS, all of the ideas seem great...in concept. In execution...

Since I failed to mention it before, I think most FPS players will agree that controls for FPSes are better on PC than on consoles, rather mouse and keyboard is more powerful than a controller for FPSes.

Hell, even a sticky at the top of the forum might do the trick: "Many of our regulars passionately dislike FO3 and are tired of people arguing with them on the subject, so please refrain from doing so. Use the search function if you want to find out more" etc.

It's not that no one likes to debate the merits of Fallout 3, it's that most people who come here and talk about how great Fallout 3 is like to rehash the same wrong propaganda about Fallout that has been refuted countless times. There is contention periodically about how well or poorly done a specific element actually is and a number of people in the community like the game but many have issues with it being titled Fallout 3 and with the quality of certain parts (combat, for example).

Would an article with the refutations for the most common misconceptions that people like to join the community in order to restate for the thousandth time be helpful? Sure, but it's an annoying thing to rite.

The anti-FO3 stance is honestly quite difficult to understand for some people who like FO1, 2 & 3. Some of the opinions on this forum can take you by surprise, as well as the animosity with which they are (occasionally) delivered.

You're oversimplifying and generalizing about the opinions that members have about Fallout 3, it's much more nuanced than being purely anti-Fallout 3.

Maybe if they knew what they were getting into before hand, they'd think twice before posting.

Again, that's no one's fault but the poster for not reading a bunch of topics before joining and posting.

First, I seen someone comment on turn based MMOs. There's one called Dofus. It reminds me more of Final Fantasy Tactics than it does Fallout though.

There's also Atlantica, which is JRPG like, and a HoMM MMO.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

It's the base model of Urquhart's "slam dunk" concept.

Making games with an extremely short development cycle is his regular modus-operandi? Doesn't look like a good idea in the long run.

Prove it to me. How do I know you aren't just AI?

Chinz, something happened to me last Thursday when I was driving home. I had a couple of miles to go -- I looked up and saw a glowing orange object in the sky, to the east!
It was moving very irregularly... Suddenly, there was intense light all around me -- and when I came to, I was home.
What do you think happened to me...?

Fine, forget it...

 

[Lexx]

Now I want to play MGS2 again. Thanks...

 

[ManWithNoName]

and Blizzards are the reason that it sold so fast

Whats Dairy Queen have to do with this?