Muuuuuuuslim Baaaaaan! But don't call it that!

[CT Phipps]

That's kind of funny that you mentioned that, because John Oliver in the video you posted said that Vietnam was an example where America handled that perfectly, and you said he was right on the mark for the topic.

Eh, I also said I disagree with 90% of what he says. Even so, Vietnam was handled better, yes.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Eh, I also said I disagree with 90% of what he says. Even so, Vietnam was handled better, yes.

Yes, but in the context that all his other videos were rubbish or wrong.

 

[GonZo_626]

There is never a "biggest source of violence" kind of a childish outlook really. Low quality education and healthcare systems, wage gaps, demonization of mental disease, deregulation of guns and overt criminalization of drugs that was born out of a movement to find excuses to persecute ethnic minorities coupled with a culture that glorifies the military and wars, the problem is pretty complex.

Sorry I got to comment on this specific one, you do know that the NRA was started by republicans to teach African Americans how to use guns to defend themselves from there democratic ex-slave owners????? Also blaming an object for crime is a completely illogical argument. Imagine it this way, drunk driver runs someone over, BAN CARS.

 

[Hassknecht]

Sorry I got to comment on this specific one, you do know that the NRA was started by republicans to teach African Americans how to use guns to defend themselves from there democratic ex-slave owners?????

Not even the NRA claims that history... You'd think that with such a background they'd talk about that more often, wouldn't they?
Seriously, all I can find about that is that a guy named Harry Alford claimed that a few years ago.

 

[naossano]

I was less thinking about gangs, but about the average civilian carrying a gun and using it to solve his problem, or leaving it somewhere where a toddler can use it. Guns aren't toys,

 

[Jogre]

Also blaming an object for crime is a completely illogical argument. Imagine it this way, drunk driver runs someone over, BAN CARS.

That's a false equivalency, and here's why:

Cars are designed for transportation. They have a practical everyday function.

Guns are weapons. The point of guns are to be lethal. They are intentionally designed for causing harm

 

[CT Phipps]

Guns are weapons. The point of guns are to be lethal. They are intentionally designed for causing harm

Albeit, the difference between guns in cities and guns in the countryside has always been an issue for the United States.

A person buys a gun in the city, they're expecting to shoot a person with it-- intruder or for crime.

A person buys a gun in the country, they're going to use it as sports equipment or for hunting.

 

[MojaveMoproblems]

Allahu Akbar my dudes
eksdeee

 

[TorontoReign]

Lets try to keep the outrage to a dull roar gentlemen.

Albeit, the difference between guns in cities and guns in the countryside of America has always been an issue for the United States.

A person buys a gun in the city, they're expecting to shoot a person with it-- intruder or for crime.

A person buys a gun in the country, they're going to use it as sports equipment or for hunting.

Or both.

 

[CaptJ]

I was less thinking about gangs, but about the average civilian carrying a gun and using it to solve his problem, or leaving it somewhere where a toddler can use it. Guns aren't toys,

I really don't know how to respond to the "toddlers with guns" thing. It reeks of pure emotional manipulation. It is more likely that a household to have a knife than a gun yet people don't act as if most people wouldn't be responsible enough to put it somewhere safe. I remember Hillary using the same retoric to push for more gun control laws. However what is more manipulative is her lumping suicide in a stat on gun related deaths and using it an arguement for gun control.

Hillary Clinton says 33,000 Americans die each year from guns
Our ruling:

Clinton said, "We have 33,000 people a year who die from guns." She’s correct that all deaths from guns have exceeded 33,000 during the most recent three years for which we have data. That said, it’s worth noting that roughly two-thirds of these were suicides. We rate her claim Mostly True.

 

[CT Phipps]

I really don't know how to respond to the "toddlers with guns" thing. It reeks of pure emotional manipulation. It is more likely that a household to have a knife than a gun yet people don't act as if most people wouldn't be responsible enough to put it somewhere safe. I remember Hillary using the same retoric to push for more gun control laws. However what is more manipulative is her lumping suicide in a stat on gun related deaths and using it an arguement for gun control.

Hillary also had a less than enlightened view of racial violence, being the woman who said Black youth had become "Super Predators."

Gun violence in the United States is a real problem but my view of the subject is the problem tends to be organized crime as a whole as well as the fact the police tend to shoot anyone who they suspect has a gun rather than the actual people shooting back. I generally support gun control in the cities but I see larger issues at play overall.

 

[GonZo_626]

That's a false equivalency, and here's why:

Cars are designed for transportation. They have a practical everyday function.

Guns are weapons. The point of guns are to be lethal. They are intentionally designed for causing harm

But without a conscious thought of the person pulling the trigger it will do no harm. Hell I have multiple firearms and live in a city, I have had zero guns come out and harm my family or me. So if a firearms only purpose is to be lethal maybe we should ban every other useful tool that was designed to do harm, give up all your kitchen knives, how about bows and arrows, crossbows, axes, etc. etc. etc.. You have the same piss poor argument of but they were meant to hurt or kill, but in my simple answer they can't do it without the same thought someone could have with many other objects/tools, the thought of maybe I should harm somebody with this.

Also many of the places with the most gun control in the US have the highest per capita gun violence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state

 

[TorontoReign]

Hillary also had a less than enlightened view of racial violence, being the woman who said Black youth had become "Super Predators."
.

Actually iirc that is incorrect. Did you listen to the whole speech?

The "superpredators" line comes from a 1996 speech in New Hampshire, where Clinton spoke in support of the 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which her husband, Bill Clinton, had signed in to law.

"We’re making some progress," Clinton said. "Much of it is related to the initiative called ‘community policing.’ Because we have finally gotten more police officers on the street. That was one of the goals that the president had when he pushed the crime bill that was passed in 1994."

Provisions of the act included a ban on some assault weapons, more funding for community policing and an expansion of the death penalty. The legislation, which was championed by Bill Clinton as a way to reduce the number of African-Americans being killed in drug-related incidents, has drawn criticism in recent years for sending disproportionate numbers of African-Americans to prison.

The "superpredator" remark, which Priebus and Trump referenced, was in the same speech a few lines later.

"But we also have to have an organized effort against gangs," Hillary Clinton said in a C-SPAN video clip. "Just as in a previous generation we had an organized effort against the mob. We need to take these people on. They are often connected to big drug cartels, they are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called superpredators — no conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first, we have to bring them to heel."

The full context of this incident does link children and superpredators, but nowhere in the speech does she directly label African-American youth this way.

I hate the bitch but people have been mislead on a lot of shit.

 

[CT Phipps]

But without a conscious thought of the person pulling the trigger it will do no harm. Hell I have multiple firearms and live in a city, I have had zero guns come out and harm my family or me. So if a firearms only purpose is to be lethal maybe we should ban every other useful tool that was designed to do harm, give up all your kitchen knives, how about bows and arrows, crossbows, axes, etc. etc. etc.. You have the same piss poor argument of but they were meant to hurt or kill, but in my simple answer they can't do it without the same thought someone could have with many other objects/tools, the thought of maybe I should harm somebody with this.

We do have plenty of data about what happens in cities with organized crime but no guns. Generally, the result is, "there's still murders but less murders." People still get murdered, it just tended to be with knives and kitchen implements. Amusingly, the Triads of Hong Kong once turned in one of their own for using a firearm because they were more comfortable with the iconic meat cleaver (and he'd killed a police officer with it).

Actually iirc that is incorrect. Did you listen to the whole speech?

Yes, I'm just generally unhappy with her views on police, poverty, and how to improve the situation of America's inner cities.

 

[TorontoReign]

We do have plenty of data about what happens in cities with organized crime but no guns. Generally, the result is, "there's still murders but less murders." People still get murdered, it just tended to be with knives and kitchen implements. Amusingly, the Triads of Hong Kong once turned in one of their own for using a firearm because they were more comfortable with the iconic meat cleaver (and he'd killed a police officer with it).



Yes, I'm just generally unhappy with her views on police, poverty, and how to improve the situation of America's inner cities.

Agreed but much of the rhetoric against her over the years has been bullshit I have found. Funny how that works. Finally got her with real stuff with Wikileaks though.

 

[CaptJ]

We do have plenty of data about what happens in cities with organized crime but no guns. Generally, the result is, "there's still murders but less murders." People still get murdered, it just tended to be with knives and kitchen implements. Amusingly, the Triads of Hong Kong once turned in one of their own for using a firearm because they were more comfortable with the iconic meat cleaver (and he'd killed a police officer with it).



Yes, I'm just generally unhappy with her views on police, poverty, and how to improve the situation of America's inner cities.

And that is assuming that you can magically remove all guns from circulation? How does someone go about that?

 

[Crni Vuk]

I am curious, what will trump do, if this bann turns out do nothing, and infact actually increasing hostile attacks against the US? Will they use it as justification to go for even more drastic measures? I mean look at them! They cleary hate us! Time to get serious.

I'm curious why you have an issue with the invasion of Afghanistan because, bluntly, it seemed like if there is a criteria for war then it certainly was fulfilled there. Unlike in Iraq, Afghanistan had been harboring and assisting Al-Qaeda which had just launched an attempt to decapitate the United States military as well as economic structure with a Pearl Harbor level of deaths. It, furthermore, had been involved in countless human rights violations as well as was committing daily atrocities. As much support as the Taliban had in some areas, it's public also generally loathed the regime as well.

Revenge was certainly a motive but so was the prevention of future attacks.

To make it simple, because it was rushed and based almost solely on the idea of revenge at that point and not to get justice.

And I would say, considering how many Afghans died, they sure got their revenge.

 

[CT Phipps]

And that is assuming that you can magically remove all guns from circulation? How does someone go about that?

Eh, assuming you want to go about and do such a thing, it's not as impossible as it may sound even in the United States. New York City under Mayor Giuliani managed to get rid of the majority of handguns in the city due to the ban he instituted. That was, of course, part of the plan by him and various real estate moguls (one of whom became President) to gentrify the city--and which succeeded to the point Manhattans now a playground for the disgustingly rich.

I am curious, what will trump do, if this bann turns out do nothing, and infact actually increasing hostile attacks against the US? Will they use it as justification to go for even more drastic measures? I mean look at them! They cleary hate us! Time to get serious.

Trump has shown no interest in facts. Just alternative facts. Given the fact he's suppressing information about climate change and other material from the various scientific departments of the Federal Government--it's very likely he knows this and is just in denial.

To make it simple, because it was rushed and based almost solely on the idea of revenge at that point and not to get justice.

And I would say, considering how many Afghans died, they sure got their revenge.

Unfortunately, that argument fails to address the issue of preventing future attacks and human rights violations. You can make an argument the invasion caused far more suffering than the Taliban would have but the simple fact is the Afghanistan war occurred because Al-Qaeda attacked first with the support of the Taliban. It wasn't the case of America firing the first shot. The war was begun by the first party rather than the second.

 

[BigGuyCIA]

We do have plenty of data about what happens in cities with organized crime but no guns. Generally, the result is, "there's still murders but less murders." People still get murdered, it just tended to be with knives and kitchen implements. Amusingly, the Triads of Hong Kong once turned in one of their own for using a firearm because they were more comfortable with the iconic meat cleaver (and he'd killed a police officer with it).

This doesn't really tackle the core issue, and in light of people talking about de-escalating the war on drugs in order to hamstring the cartel's revenue sources down South, we really don't need to be looking at providing them additional exports in the form of armaments.

 

[GonZo_626]

We do have plenty of data about what happens in cities with organized crime but no guns. Generally, the result is, "there's still murders but less murders." People still get murdered, it just tended to be with knives and kitchen implements. Amusingly, the Triads of Hong Kong once turned in one of their own for using a firearm because they were more comfortable with the iconic meat cleaver (and he'd killed a police officer with it).



Yes, I'm just generally unhappy with her views on police, poverty, and how to improve the situation of America's inner cities.

Actually a lot of that evidence in anecdotal, many places with high amounts of firearm ownership and little gun control have very little in the way of firearm crime and violent crime, while some places with high levels of gun control have a lot of violent crime. Brazil was a good example of ridiculously high amounts of both control and crime. Japan is an example of high control and little crime. Canada has high ownership, with little crime, the US has high ownership and high crime. I do think that the control only works when people want to follow it, but if you already have high crime rates adding more control does nothing but make law abiding people criminals. Violent crime rates and firearms crime rates have been declining since the 1970's at a steady pace, it is only when instituting extreme gun control has the rate of violent crimes increased. Australia saw an increase in violent crime after everyone turned their firearms in for 2 years before starting to decline again at roughly the same rate as the rest of the western world. Even in the US, you were more likely to get shot in the 1970's then today. But after an event like sandy hook an emotional knee jerk reaction is to call for more control over something that would not have changed a damn thing.