Wasteland 2 first look video released, update

Loved every minute of it, except the dialog. It's not a deal breaker, but it bummed me out a little. Guess we will see how it turns out further down the line.
 
Sobboth said:
Keywords dialogue system make the dialogue much more complex, it doesn't simplify it.
You have to find clues, have to think a little bit, not have pre generated line with a silly click auto win option.
Makes the game much more reactive of what you know and what you are going to learn, hiding stuff unless you put a little effort to discover things.
I can understand people wanting auto generated cool lines but it is a simplification of the gameplay.
It seems to me a lot of people are unable to realize the huge potential of this system and only see his drawback.
Moreover dialogue trees system is much more adapted to single player cRPG. In party cRPG it works much better if you imagine your part of the dialogue, it is not stupid at all.
I have good hope though that if this dialogue system remains people will ultimately acknowledge his quality.
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My problem isn't with keywords that you guess to get additional dialog. It is the main dialogue options that are given to you (those blue buttons). When you are handed the keywords to choose from that is no different mechanics wise than giving you an entire line of dialog to click. However it is very different immersion-wise.

I do have one concern about keywords you guess. I was a kid in the 80s (I played Wasteland when it was a new game) and I remember plenty of games that required you to use a specific key word to progress or open up a new dialog option (Zork is the classic example). The thing that drove me crazy was that if you used a synonym for the keyword (I say "jump" and it wants "leap") or made it plural when it wanted singular (e.g. gun vs. guns) you would be wrong. If they account for this issue by giving us some flexibility in our choices that would allay my concern.
 
I don't have a problem with a choice of keywords to click on in order to answer. But I DO have a problem with the dialogue line being only the very keyword I clicked on. See:


Cientist says: "bla bla bla bla bla".

Two keys words appear for me to choose: GOODBYE and HELP. I click HELP.

Ranger says: "Don't worry, we'll bring your people back safe".


This way, it is good. Kinda unpredictable, but still good. But it is not what was shown in the video:


Cientist says: "bla bla bla bla bla".

Two keys words appear for me to choose: GOODBYE and HELP. I click HELP.

Ranger says: HELP.


I really hope this was just a placeholder or something. Solar Surf is kinda right, many thing look good enough, bt it is better not to get overhyped, because "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment". :|


.Pixote. said:
The game looks stunning, even at this early stage...I can't wait to get my hands on it.
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You will need to finally update your ages old computer :lol:
 
maggit said:
The combat looked quite nice but I'm not sure about the proliferation of similarly functioning skills (opening, locks, opening safes, etc.) it may add some flavour to the game but I'm afraid those may just be needed in very specific situations.
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Agreed. More isn't better. I'm also interested in how they do skill checks. I'm a huge believer in all skill checks outside of combat being static threshold checks rather than skill rolls to avoid save scumming.
 
Many have said it already, but it bears repeating: The overall feeling and look of the game are fantastic. The music sets the tone, the voice on the radio adds extra flavor, and the visuals and rotating camera seem well-done (if not 100% polished). Combat looks like it will be complex and involving, and potentially interesting.

And then the dialogue system has some people in consternation. I'm confused by it as well. With such an in-depth, immersive, involving game otherwise, why scrimp on a few choices of typed-out dialogue? Why give us a generic "HELP" choice instead of a more nuanced, or at least a black and white choice:

- "The Rangers are here - just point us at the problem and we'll fix it."
- "Before we venture into unknown territory, could you give us some background on what's going on here?"
- "Holy shit, your problems are out of our league, you best call someone else."

But all we get is one word on a button. Yes, we can type something in to garner further information, but from first glance, the typed inputs appear to be more for flavor dialogue than plot-driving or problem-solving. There is no player input towards driving forward the plot, characters, or situation. The player input goes toward info dumps. At least this is what the video shows. Let's see if this is changed...
 
Agreed with various positive feedback in this thread.

I feel great about this. Very excited to play this game!
 
Makenshi said:
.Pixote. said:
The game looks stunning, even at this early stage...I can't wait to get my hands on it.
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You will need to finally update your ages old computer :lol:
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I just got my hands on a Panasonic Toughbook - that little bastard should be able to run it, fingers crossed. Otherwise I'm screwed. Who knows I might play W2 on the train, on the way to work... :wink:

Panasonic_Toughbook_CF19-625.jpg
 
There are benefits as well as disadvantages with both keyword and regular dialogue. Although the keyword approach may not be as personal or somewhat engaging as the usual dialogue in most RPGs, it's probably the most money efficient option.

Regular dialogue has it's cons of not letting the player say what he want, but rather pick an option made by the developer. Not only this but it gives an illusion of beeing deeper than it is. It's either a direct accept, decline, special accept that require a skillcheck or a weird but humorous option which is essentially a decline or fail to continue the dialogue. i'm a bit disappointed about this news, but i have to see it in action before i'll judge weather or not it's a disaster ;)
 
Implement full dialogue options. Show combat turn order through portraits. Work around the ceiling (pipes blocking view).

Excited to hear Russian in the radio bit at the start. These guys better not be antagonists!
 
As I think it has been stated before... There isn't really a wrong choice with this keyword dialog. If there were, it would be a complete mess and often an unnecessary gamble to ask about something. Most often, it wouldn't be possible to know if something is offensive by seeing only one word.

And speaking of words, I found the use of the F-word out of place in the video dialog, but I might just be getting old...

other than that.
Hexes = hurray
Seeing how the Turnbased action worked = Hurray
 
A really neat detail that I liked very much: The Nixie-tube AP-counter.
 
Sub-Human said:
Implement full dialogue options. Show combat turn order through portraits. Work around the ceiling (pipes blocking view).
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This man is right.
 
I'll third SubHuman's feedback. The good news is this is developed with the community right? So if we post the feedback where they can see it, there's a chance they'll take it to heart.

Overall, the footage looked nice though it certainly was a lot of brown and gray. I guess with the wasteland, that makes sense but it would be nice to see more variety.
 
Pretty sure that it is unlikely they would change the keyword-system to real sentences at this point in development.

I personally don't care about this. I will judge the game when I play it and not before.
 
@Pixote: damn man, that thing looks COOL! Never saw one of those, it's has a serious military vibe. Congrats!
 
Its Wasteland. Not Fallout.

We've hashed over most of this dialogue issue many times since funding ended. Its not trying to be the same type of game that Fallout is, in terms of dialogue- and it shouldnt. Its not the kind of game you are going to be able to create a diplomat character and avoid the majority of combat. Its not the type of game you are going to be able to develop relationships with NPCs through the tone of your voice. Its a party based system that isnt going to develop the personalities of your rangers by dialogue choices. You will improve standing with NPCs and factions through your actions, not the tone of voice you use.

Its going to be more combat-centric and puzzle solving than Fallout. The keyword dialogue fits well with the continuation of the Wasteland franchise and even the paragraphs from the original.

Now, if they use the same system for Torment, that would be a legitimate gripe. But that type of dialogue was never on the in the cards for Wasteland
 
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