I don't think Legendary weapons should be in the game.

[Irwin John Finster]

He's not exactly known for a lack of bias. He once reviewed a game his friend and former associate made and he held it up to more quality than it actually was (I thought it seemed okay, but I've never had high standards). He is the kind that will later admit he is wrong though. That's sort of my point.

Ask me about three years ago, I would've given Fallout 3 an 11/10. If someone strolled into NMA and said Fallout 4 was a perfect RPG, then one month down the line admitted it wasn't, everyone here shouldn't just be saying "finally, you stopped being an idiot, what do you expect, fucking applause?", but that's exactly what I expect most everyone to say.

I think the problem is that he is a review critic. If you are a review critic you're not supposed to be giving a game like Fallout 4 a 9.5/10 at launch in that disgusting messy dumbed down state while simultaneously giving a game like Witcher 3 8.5/10. I know it's just his personal opinion, but by any standard Fallout 4 was never a 9.5/10 on release. Even TotalBiscuit complained about this. He essentially couldn't believe all the 9's and 10s Fallout 4 was getting given how dumbed down the dialogue and role-playing was or how buggy it was.

I've personally decided to just start liking Fallout 4 for what it is and enjoy it. And it's actually not a bad game now that they've fixed a lot of the bugs (it was definitely a BAD game before that), and despite being a terrible role-playing game and kind of an abandonment of what Fallout is really about. But a 9.5/10 it is not, especially not in the state it was in at release.

 

[Risewild]

Whoa, a bit over the top? Bethesda are no Illuminati of gaming, whose "connections" and "brainwashed obeying masses" gets them away with everything. They are a company like every other company. Majority opinion on this forum is falling into exaggeration territory again. They got burned as much as every other company of the same size, maybe a little less because they have really good PR most of the time.

Has it ever occured to any of you that the reason you are all seeing disproportionately less criticism directed at Bethesda compared to other companies, is because you yourselves are the critics, and naturally you tend not to count yourselves into the total number of critics? You may be seeing less stones thrown at Bethesda because you're not counting the stones you've thrown yourselves.
Ah, I just did the thing where I shared an unpopular opinion no one ever asked for again, didn't I? fun fun fun

The problem is that if you go on Steam and write a nice indepth review of why you don't recommend the game or you go to internet community places (like Reddit or Bethesda Forums) and say that you found something you didn't like in the game you paid $60-$70 you will get less than 10% of posters that don't bash you and say that if you don't like the game you shouldn't play it (even though you forked over quite a lot of money for a game and have the right to point out it's problems, it is not like Bethesda gave it to you for free and you're just complaining to be annoying) and that if you don't like it how come you already have more than 40 hours on it or why are you complaining if you don't even have played it for 100 hours.

That is proof that the majority of players defend Bethesda and let it "get away with it". I am quite aware of the criticism we have around NMA and even on Metacritic where players seem to have open eyes about the problems and bad parts of the game, but I am also aware of the "defenders of Bethesda" that swarm the internet and bash anyone that does point out problems, expose the bad practices of Bethesda, etc...

If the ratio of people that are blind to what a company is doing to their own products and clients are 10 to 1 against those that try to point out the bad practises of that company, I would say the company "gets away with it".

 

[MercenarySnake]

I like being critical about them when their fans certainly avoid that direction. It's not like I want them to form a mob that tears the heads off anyone that intentionally put that game together then put them on pikes outside of the company's property, I'm just wanting to see people call them out on their bullshit and convince them to stop treating their audience and others like retards.

I'm talking about silly shit like:

-Removing features from every game they create? = That's okay!

-New Vegas is buggy on release? = Those assholes gave us a buggy game!!!!!

-Fallout 4 releases in a poor bug ridden state with most features gone = I love this bug ridden mess that treats me like an idiot! Even if I'm starting to grow kind of tired of it.

I'm just saying, don't treat one company like they should be put on some godly pedestal then treat others worse even though they're both doing the same shit.
I'd rather be critical about something then ejaculate over it or spew blind hate.

 

[Mr Fish]

I said it before and I'll say it again: They're zealots. What do you expect out of zealots?

 

[MercenarySnake]

Potential to use their minds to pick apart the bad from the good and see through the bullshit lies. Heh but what do I know?


Also your avatar scares me shitless.

 

[Mr Fish]

Also your avatar scares me shitless.

Juicy asses scare you?

 

[MercenarySnake]

Juicy asses scare you?

I love juicy plump asses but that's more along the lines of wrinkly mammoth ass.

 

[Mr Fish]

I love juicy plump asses but that's more along the lines of wrinkly mammoth ass.

I fail to see the difference.

 

[Crni Vuk]

The response to Bethesda turning Fallout into an FPS is a perfect example of my point. Most of NMA isn't seeing criticism being directed at Bethesda because they themselves are the critics. Whenever the NMA majority groans about Bethesda getting away with crap again, I know for a fact that other communities are doing this exact same thing, wondering aloud why no one ever criticises the developers that have ruined their classic favourites, because I spend my time on other forums too.

Well, for starters, who or where are those critics you're talking about? There are for sure not many in the gaming press, let us talk about that for a min. Pretty much any large game studio, has seen it's fair share of criticism here, including EA, Ubisoft and a few others. But I think this has less to do with Bethesda beeing special, but more that they are not as often in the spot light. EA, as example, is known for many games, they bought a lot of teams and they have also used a lot of really shady business practices. If they release like 3,4 or even more titles per year, there is a higher chance that you will see shit reviews or criticism. Doesn't mean that EA is better or worse compared to Zenimax for example, which is the powerhouse behind Beth. But Zenimax is much less covered by the gaming press.
When Bethesda comes out, they usually have somthing really big to announce after like 3+ years of development and silence. Like their next Elderscrolls game, probably on some large press conference or on the E3 and so on. The gaming press, full in hype at that point, is less inclined to criticise a game here. Most of the time they start to criticise Beth games after a new game has been anounced or released by Beth. Like when they mentioned the flaws and mistakes of Oblivion after the release of Skyrim. The simple truth here is, Beth knows, at least by now, how to play the gaming media like an instrument.

The other part is the fanbase, and here I think what makes the difference, is the fact that Beth has really not released many games, not like EA which has dozen of different teams and franchises under their belt, where as Bethesda has for now, pretty much only 2. If we exclude publishing, but that is another can of worms entirely. Betheada has this habbit to alinate their fanbase with each new game, and that alone kills a lot of the criticism. You liked Morrowind? Screw you, oldimter! Oblivion is the new age! JUST LOOK HOW BEAUTIFUL IT IS! You liked Oblivion? Screw you, oldtimer! Skyrim is the NEW AGE now! WITH FUCKING VIKINGS!
What ever criticism people might have, is simply discounted as nostaliga or, hating or something like that. And if you actually try to explain how there is a clear trend in sinde of Bethesda to make each new game appeal more and more to the masses trough simplfication etc. it turns outright hostile. Because, now they have to admit, that they like dumb entertainment.
Bethesda is simply making RPGs for people that actually hate RPGs.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Well, for starters, who or where are those critics you're talking about? There are for sure not many in the gaming press, let us talk about that for a min. Pretty much any large game studio, has seen it's fair share of criticism here, including EA, Ubisoft and a few others. But I think this has less to do with Bethesda beeing special, but more that they are not as often in the spot light. EA, as example, is known for many games, they bought a lot of teams and they have also used a lot of really shady business practices. If they release like 3,4 or even more titles per year, there is a higher chance that you will see shit reviews or criticism. Doesn't mean that EA is better or worse compared to Zenimax for example, which is the powerhouse behind Beth. But Zenimax is much less covered by the gaming press.
When Bethesda comes out, they usually have somthing really big to announce after like 3+ years of development and silence. Like their next Elderscrolls game, probably on some large press conference or on the E3 and so on. The gaming press, full in hype at that point, is less inclined to criticise a game here. Most of the time they start to criticise Beth games after a new game has been anounced or released by Beth. Like when they mentioned the flaws and mistakes of Oblivion after the release of Skyrim. The simple truth here is, Beth knows, at least by now, how to play the gaming media like an instrument.

That's also another reasonable explanation, thank you for one that's not "Bethesda is invincible to all criticism because majority idiocy, everyone panic!", and I was about to make this very point too, actually.

Gaming press is naturally inclined to support those who advocate the newer things, as it's more likely to benefit them. Most of the old Fallout games and the people who love them are, on the surface, "nostalgia-blinded haters who fell out with progression and are just too old and tired to accept the future", so it's not likely that public criticism will be on NMA's side.

Most of the criticism I refer to isn't the gaming press - they don't criticise much of EA or Ubisoft either - they just cover updates on their actions. Bethesda, as you've described, gets a free pass by being smaller. It's the same way Overkill got away with ruining PAYDAY 2 - you know what, just look that up if you don't know what I'm talking about.

The criticism I'm talking about is that of the communities, which is very influential. While Bethesda are trying very hard to close their ears and pretend they're deaf, the gaming community does very much acknowledge the existence of NMA and the fact that you all make very good points, the place is just a tad bit too bitter and cynical for the majority to side with.

I'll explain in more detail if you want me to, but I think you get the overall point. Like I said, I don't feel like Bethesda is getting away with more than they should, because personally, I feel every company of their size and behaviour is getting hit with equal fan criticism. NMA does count as fan criticism. So that's that.

The other part is the fanbase, and here I think what makes the difference, is the fact that Beth has really not released many games, not like EA which has dozen of different teams and franchises under their belt, where as Bethesda has for now, pretty much only 2. If we exclude publishing, but that is another can of worms entirely. Betheada has this habbit to alinate their fanbase with each new game, and that alone kills a lot of the criticism. You liked Morrowind? Screw you, oldimter! Oblivion is the new age! JUST LOOK HOW BEAUTIFUL IT IS! You liked Oblivion? Screw you, oldtimer! Skyrim is the NEW AGE now! WITH FUCKING VIKINGS!
What ever criticism people might have, is simply discounted as nostaliga or, hating or something like that. And if you actually try to explain how there is a clear trend in sinde of Bethesda to make each new game appeal more and more to the masses trough simplfication etc. it turns outright hostile. Because, now they have to admit, that they like dumb entertainment.
Bethesda is simply making RPGs for people that actually hate RPGs.

Augh, Crni, you've practically made this rant for the twentieth time! I already know all of this! We get it, Bethesda hates Fallout, do I really need to be reminded of this? But I did read all of it anyways, pointless as it was. So, thanks Crni, for reminding me yet again that you're bitter about Fallout and general attitude towards older gamers. In other news, the sky is blue.

 

[Mr Fish]

Dude, it's a forum, we're bound to end up regurgitating old points at some point. And depending on the subject at hand, some points will be regurgitated way more than others. No need to be a dick about it.

 

[Walpknut]

Zigzag won't be happy untile he gets us to say that Bethesda is super smart.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

I'm going to apologise in advance for the following asshole rant, but I actually enjoy parts of this forum, so I think it's justified.

Dude, it's a forum, we're bound to end up regurgitating old points at some point. And depending on the subject at hand, some points will be regurgitated way more than others. No need to be a dick about it.

I wasn't trying to be a dick, but considering basically everyone on this forum is a dick about everything from world history to global politics to movies to even food, it's kind of a double standard to call me out on this, isn't it?

If anything, I'm starting to partly blame NMA for why Obsidian isn't back in charge of the next Fallout yet. Ironically, the site makes New Vegas fans look like out-of-touch, angry gamers fueled only by nostalgia, and any attempt to actually convince Bethesda that Obsidian should get a chance at ever touching the franchise again is stifled because this place is making Obsidian fans look like a hateful minority, who should only be ignored.

Zigzag won't be happy untile he gets us to say that Bethesda is super smart.

@Walpknut won't be happy until he gets to convince everyone else that @ZigzagPX4 is totally a Bethesda lover who is here to spread Bethfan propaganda for all of NMA. Yes, yes, blame me for everything, I'm used to it. On Bethesda forums and Fallout subreddits, I'm the one who gets shot down for liking Obsidian too much, so I guess it all evens out.

You're also kind of proving that NMA really does not stop being hostile to a new member until they despise Bethesda, but I don't really think you're very good at being self-aware so pointing this out was probably the most pointless thing I've done today anyways.

I'm just saying, don't treat one company like they should be put on some godly pedestal then treat others worse even though they're both doing the same shit.
I'd rather be critical about something then ejaculate over it or spew blind hate.

Yeah, that sounds like a great idea! We should really start listening to OUR OWN ADVICE!

 

[Izak]

Dude, be cool, we're all friends here.
Anyway, most people here don't idolise specific game companies without reason. Bethesda deserves criticism, it's part of a massive corporation and, has attempted to implement shady business tactics before.
Obsidian on the other hand is relatively close to being indie, the only sway they hold over the public is that of a reputation for continuing the legacy of BI and Troika and, working on a few popular titles like South Park: The Stick of Truth and, New Vegas; they don't deserve criticism because to be blunt, they're not important.
If Obsidian was a massive corporation then they'd be judged in the same way Bethesda is and in the way Interplay was judged once upon a time.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Relax ZigZag I don't hate or despise everyone that likes Bethesda, I just find it annoying when they treat them like the next best thing since sliced bread. I like studios that have in the past put out good games but I don't make them sound like the second coming of Jesus if one releases another game, I think their good at what they do and leave it at that. I don't hate you either, I think you can be a pretty cool guy. Being bitter and cynical is how I naturally live that's all.

 

[IndignantHedgehog]

I voted yes and no. I like unique weapons that are modified to have higher rates of fire or damage, like the Medicine Stick or the Survivalist's rifle, but magic freezing flamers of ultimate energy are fucking stupid on every level.

And the survivalit's rifle actually makes a lot sense as it fires 12.7mm rounds.

 

[Lucas9]

I read this title. And thought "is that really a thing?". Then went here. And holy shit, they aren't even trying to separate TES from Fallout anymore. And of course I googled this crap to see if anybody felt the same way as I did (unsurprisingly, this was one of the few results that sprung up, so I apologize in advance for the necro).

Legendary weapons shouldn't be in the game. The very "legendary" moniker is ridiculous. The tonal weapons from Morrowind are legendary weapons. They are weapons of legend. Yet you don't see "LEGENDARY SUNDER" when you pick it up. It's just Sunder.

A 10mm pistol I got from a Molerat is not, and can never be, a legendary weapon. A 10mm pistol I found inside the body of a Deatchlaw that devoured a character of legend can be a legendary weapon, but still shouldn't be "LEGENDARY 10MM PISTOL", but "Vault Dweller's 10mm Pistol" (for example).

Any unique weapon in the previous Fallout games has more legend to them than this bullshit legendary weapon system, because they had an actual story attached to them: the guy who collected sarsaparilla bottlecaps and died closed in, the gun from a top ranking officer of the Enclave, motherfuckin' Benny's pistol with Our Lady of Guadalupe engraved on it.

Sorry, it just pissed me off that there's such an effect as "ammo capacity is the amount of ammo you have on you". Fucking magnets.

 

[Garompa]

yeah, old school legendary weapons had technology, not magic, in them. They had modifications that were unique and couldnt be acquired from anywhere else. Like lets say a freaking working laser sight, or an experimental booster of speed of some kind for an energy pistol, i dont know...

freezing baseball bat...pffft, if you wanna do a freezing bat just make a custom strange technology piece on it and make it hold energy cells...jeez...not a plain bat that freezes people magically

 

[Zerginfestor]

I despise the Legendary weapons, and the very concept, because for the most part, it's just absurd effects on vanilla weapons. There's no backstory to the weapons and the detailed differences that make them..well..FUCKING LEGENDARY compared to others. Like Lucky, or Medicine Stick, or That Gun, Something that when you see it, you know it's fucking unique from the others and this activates, for the most part, a part of our brain that holds and cares some of the unique weapons out there, because since they're the only one out there, they're basically precious badass killing relics of the old.

Fallout 4 just shits them out without a care, which kills the entire meaning of "LEGENDARY". Hell, it's the main reason I downloaded the fucking Legendary Modification mod just so it feels like I make a specific weapon legendary throughout my journey (took the progressive unlocking mod file, which means all of the crazy shit gets unlocked at level 35 and upwards).

 

[Crni Vuk]

It's a concept they use since Oblivion. And it was shitty in Oblivion, it was shitty in Fallout 3, it was shitty in Skyrim and it is shit now. But it seems this time, they don't even attempt to hide the system. It's alright to have some randomness, in an open world game. But Morrowind was really great mix between randomness and unique powerfull items. The worst part of it is, that a lot of stuff is tied to your level now. I don't know how so many people find Bethesda games ... immersive ... oh hey! A place you visited before is now repopulated, but instead of the lvl 5 power armor it has now a full suit of top notch enclave armor inside! Yaaaay ... I guess? For a fact that people love searching for loot so much they really don't like to actually search for it.